1938 Marihuana Conference, Part 1

Marihuana Conference

HELD DECEMBER 5, 1938
in the
UNITED STATES Bureau of Internal Revenue
Building (Room 3003) Washington D.C.

CALLED BY THE BUREAU OF NARCOTICS
OF THE UNITED STATES TREASURY DEPARTMENT
PRESIDED OVER BY MR. H. J. ANSLINGER, COMMISSIONER OF NARCOTICS, AND MR. H. J. WOLLNER, CONSULTING CHEMIST, TREASURY DEPARTMENT

MARIHUANA CONFERENCE INDEX

Conferees Present: 2 - 3
OPENING STATEMENT OF H.J. ANSLINGER, COMMISSIONER OF NARCOTICS, containing Review of Proceedings of Sub-Committee on Cannabis of Advisory Committee on Traffic in Opium, League of Nations: 4-16

STATEMENT OF DR. A. H .WRIGHT, PROFESSOR OF AGRONOMY, UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN, relating to growth of Hemp, where seeds are produced, and Hemp is grown in United States: 16 - 27

STATEMENT OF MR. FRANKLIN, CHIEF OF DRUG CONTROL, STATE OF NEW YORK, as to growth of Marihuana in that state. 27 - 29

STATEMENT OF DR. B. B. ROBINSON, BUREAU OF PLANT INDUSTRY, DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE, relative to experiments as to World Production of Hemp, and quantity of Production in United States and Growth and Production of Cannabis, and Comparative Results obtained from Seed obtained from various Countries: 29 - 49

STATEMENT OF DR. JOHN R. MATCHETT, CHIEF CHEMIST, BUREAU OF NARCOTICS, as to Tests made from Seeds of Hemp in various Countries: 42- 43

STATEMENT OF MR. HENRY FULLER, CONSULTING CHEMIST, as to his Experience in Growth of Cannabis: 49 - 55

STATEMENT OF DR. JAMES C. MUNCH, PROFESSOR OF PHARMACOLOGY, TEMPLE UNIVERSITY, relating to Effects of Marihuana on Organs of Body: 55- 60

STATEMENT OF DR. S. LOEWE, PHARMACOLOGIST, CORNELL UNIVERSITY MEDICAL COLLEGE, as to Bio-Assay of Marihuana 60 - 65

STATEMENT OF DR. WALTER BROMBERG, SENIOR PSYCHIATRIST, DEPARTMENT OF HOSPITALS, NEW YORK CITY, relating to varying Effects of Marihuana in various Classes of Individuals: 65 - 88

STATEMENT OF DR. A. H. BLATT, HOWARD UNIVERSITY, Relative to Survey of Chemical Constituents of Cannabis Sativa: 137-143

STATEMENT OF DR. JOHN R. MATCHETT, TREEASURY DEPARTMENT, containing Report of Department of Attacks on Marihuana Problems: 143 -151

STATEMENT OF DR. JOSEPH LEVINE, CHEMIST, BUREAU OF NARCOTICS, as to Tests for Identification of Marihuana 152 -160

STATEMENT OF MR. LOUIS BENJAMIN, CHEMIST, TREASURY DEPARTMENT, as to Tests: 160-164

STATEMENT OF DR. H. M. LANCASTER, CHIEF DOMINION ANALYST, CANADIAN GOVERMENT, in relation to Tests: 165 -l70

STATEMENT OF DR. JAMES COUCH, PATHOLOGICAL DIVISION, BUREAU OF ANIMAL INDUSTRY, DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE: 170 -173

BY COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: I want to express to you the appreciation of the Treasury Department for giving your valuable time in an effort to assist the Government in this important work.

DR. HERBERT O. CALVERY, Chief, Division of Pharmacology, Food & Drug Administration, Department of Agriculture

DR. JAMES COUCH, Pathological Division, Bureau of Anlmal Industry, Department of Agriculture

DR. WALTER BROMBERG, Senior Psychiatrist, Department of Hospitals, City of New York

MR. H. M. LANCASTER, Chief Dominion Analyst, Canadian Government, Ottawa, Canada

MR. PETER VALAER, Chemist, Alcohol Tax Unit Laboratory, U.S. Treasury Department, Washington, D.C.

DR. W. V. LINDER, Chief, Alcohol Tax Unit Laboratory, U.S. Treasury Department, Washington, D.C.

MR. PAUL W. SIMONDS, Assn. Chief, Alcohol Tax Unit Laboratory, U.S. Treasury Department, Washington, D.C.

MR. MORRIS KAPLAN, Office of the Chief, Division of Laboratories, U.S. Bureau of Customs

DR. S. T. SCHICKTANZ, Chemist, Alcohol Tax Unit Laboratory, U.S. Treasury Department

Commissioner Anslinger: I assume the press will be after us. The Treasury Department has not as yet publicly announced this meeting. The Department will do this subsequently. I hope therefore, that none of you will be drawn into discussions with reporters until the meeting is concluded. The Treasury Department will issue a statement on the meeting. I want all of you to freely express your opinions on every phase of the subject under discussion; and if you differ on any point, we hope you will not hesitate to present your side of the picture. I want to give you a brief review of what took place at Geneva, Switzerland, last spring at a meeting of the Sub-Committee on Cannabis, of the Advisory Committee on traffic in opium and other dangerous drugs of the League of Nations. I think this a fitting way to open the Conference. It will illustrate the international significance of the Cannabis problem and show the current status of some of the excellent work that is being done by other nations on the question. This work I think was very important, and I want to give you the reports of the experts of the various countries which will give you an idea as to the points on which the authorities still remain in doubt.

The Secretariat of the League referred to various points submitted to the Experts in a questionnaire drawn up for their use in January, l936, and used as a basis for the Sub-Committees work. He described the research work being undertaken. The Sub-Committee endeavored to indicate on what phases of the Marihuana problem agreement exists, and on what points there is a divergence of views which has formed the subject of exchange of information between the Experts whether on chemical and agricultural questions, or on the medical and pathological questions. Since the Advisory Committee’s last session, Mr. J. V. Collins, Government Analyst, Ceylon, on January 12, l938, notified the Committee of his acceptance of the Advisory Committee’s invitation to act as an Expert on Cannabis in place of the late Dr. Symons. The Committee received important documents from two of its Experts, Dr. Bouquet and Dr. de Myttenaere. Dr. Bouquet has for many years done a vast amount of work on Cannabis. He is the Inspector of Pharmacies in Tunis.

I Vegetable products wrongly designated as hemp.
II Microscopic examination of samples of Cannabis.
III Physiologically active resin in the staminate Cannabis plant.

IV New variety of Cannabis.
V Influence of drought on the growth of Cannabis.
VI Medical uses of Cannabis and drugs with a Cannabis base.
VII Use of animal charcoal.
VIII Dr. James C. Munch’s Reaction.
IX Is light petroleum the only solvent of the active element of Cannabis and its preparations?
X Addiction by certain solanaceae.

I Are the light petroleum extracts of Cannabis the only ones that are physiologically active?
II Observations on document O.C.1542 (z) (Report on the research conducted by the Treasury Department of the United States of America, in cooperation with the Department of Agriculture, in connection with studies on the chemical identification of Cannabis Indica (Cannabis Sativa).
III Identification test for Cannabis resin, proposed by Dr. de Myttenaere.
IV Method of identifying resin, proposed by Dr. H. J. Wollner.
V Procedure for experiments.
VI Observations on the causes of Cannabis addiction in North Africa.

Dr. de Myttenaere submitted to the Secretariat a supplement to the third note on Indian hemp, and a fourth note on Indian hemp, including a study of the published work which has appeared since May, 1937, giving observations of Mr. Wollner’s experiments in the United States. Apart from these contributions from Experts of the Sub-Committee on Cannabis, the Secretariat received a “Study of the Chemical Identification of Marihuana (Cannabis Indica)” by Dr. Rafael Plasencia, Government Chemist of Cuba, and a reply concerning the same subject from the United Kingdon Representative. It also received information regarding experiments on the chemical identification of Cannabis indica communicated by the United States Government. This is the report covering the investigation conducted by the Treasury Department in cooperation with the Department’s Agriculture. The United Kingdom also submitted to the Secretariat a communication concerning the question as to whether Cannabis stalks used commercially for the production of fibre still contained resin. That point was also discussed. As to the American documents, we usually summarize all work that has been done on Cannabis, incorporate it into one document and submit it to the League of Nations. As to Dr. Plasencia’s experiment; he has followed up Beam’s experiments and elaborated a new method which he

states is absolutely and specifically suitable for Cannabis and constant for all the varieties tested, even Merck’s extract of Cannabis indica with which Beam’s reaction gave no result. Our Government has submitted observations on this paper. The United Kingdom Representative also transmitted an opinion by the Government Chemist who suggests certain modifications in this method. These modifications consist of an attempt to separate the substances responsible for the characteristic color in Beam’s test on the assumption that it is a phenol. All of these documents are available in the United States Treasury Department for anyone who would like to study them. It would seem that Dr. de Myttenaere and Mr. Wollner have different opinions on the point as to whether light petroleum is the best solvent for Cannabis. Dr. de Myttenaere considers that so far as is known at present, light petroleum is the best solvent for the extraction of the active principles of Cannabis, and hence the only one suitable for Beam’s test; and he has carried out experiments as to whether ethyl acetate should be substituted, or is preferable as a solvent for petroleum ether.

In the report there is also given the list of vegetable products wrongfully designated as hemp, We have a little trouble with that in this country, as it is frequently designated as Cannabis, New Zealand hemp, hemp of the Americas, Bombay hemp, African hemp, etc. It has been found that these were all wrong designators used by various persons interested in the problem. NOTE.--Until very recently. the definition of Cannabis sativa (marihuana) was based upon the traditional conception that the active principle of the drug, technically known as cannabinol or cannabinone, is present only in the female or pistillate plant and present there only in the flowering tops. Since the development of more refined chemical tests, it has been discovered that the active principle is contained in the leaves of the pistillate plant as well as the leaves of the staminate plant. This brought about the advisability of makihg the definition all inclusive in laws for control of the drug found in the male as well as the female plant. It will therefore be necessary to change the definition in the League of Nations Treaty of 1925. Dr. Bouquet, while investigating this question, found that it always has been acknowledged that intoxicating resin could be obtained from male Cannabis plants but in

such small quantities that for practical purposes this source of production is not utilized at present. He realized, however, that it might become worthwhile for traffickers to turn their attention to it, and recommended that the free handling of the vegetative parts of both male and female Cannabis plants should be prohibited. That work was started in America by the laboratory of Parke-Davis some years ago. Then the question of the production of the fibre, the condition of development, depending on the meterological factors of the crop area was discussed. In this respect differences have been noted between the height of the plant, and the length, consistency and toughness of the textile fibres. The growing conditions of the plant also affect the output of its resin, which depends directly on the degree of temperature; on the dryness of the soil; and probably on the amount of sunshine encountered. In the annual report for Turkey for 1937, there is brought to the attention of the Committee data concerning a variety of Cannabis sativa having long stalks. It is grown for industrial purposes in various parts of Anatolia; the fibre is used for manufacturing ropes and sacks; and its resin content is so slight it could not be used for

the extraction of a narcotic drug. That seems to be the answer to our prayers, if true. As to the psychical and psychopathic effects of Cannabis, the literature on this phase of the subject tends to confirm the analysis as to the psychic effects of hashish made as long ago as 1845 by Dr. Moreau de Tours in his book, which incidentally is still the standard work on the subject. Also, Dr. Brottaux in his book on Hashish published in 1934, which I think is considered a veritable ‘bible’ on the subject today, has followed up and in the main confirmed Dr. Moreau’s analysis. Then there was discussed the relation between Cannabis and insanity. There was reference to the work of Dhunsiboy, the Director of one of the Hospitals for Insane in India-in which he points out that the prolonged use of Indian hemp leads to insanity. The work of Dr. Bouquet was discussed; and also the work of the British Indian hemp Commission which carried out an inquiry in 1893 and 1894 into the relationship of Indian hemp and lunacy. Colonel Chopra did some work in India which was discussed. He found that in India a special form of mental disease classed as toxic insanity had direct relation to the excessive use of hemp drugs.

All of these experts laid stress on ‘excessive use.’ Then there was a proposal discussed to authorize the sale of ganja to the Indian population in Burma. As you probably know, in India. the Government maintains a Monopoly, and various narcotic products are sold across the counter tax- paid. The League of Nations wanted to point out to the Committee the various points that were raised in connection with the proposal to sell hemp. To meet the allegation concerning the increase in insanity due to the use of ganja, a table prepared by the Inspector General of Civil Hospitals in Burma has been added showing that as far as the mental hospital at Tagadale was concerned, the percentage of mental cases attributable to the use of ganja and its derivatives varied during the years between 1928 and 1937 from 0.87 to 4.35; and that in 1936, out of a total of 296 admissions there were ten such cases, the corresponding figures for 1937 being 356 and ten respectively. The Sub-Committee was urged to examine the still-controversial question of the relationship between addiction to hemp drugs and the spread of insanity. The work of Dr. Stringaris on Hashish was discussed. He is an authority on insanity due to the use of Hashish

in Russia. He maintains that a further increase can be expected in the ravages caused by Hashish in Asiatic Russia. Then the question of the relationship between the abuse of narcotic drugs and alcoholism arose. It is still a mixed question, and considerable recommendations were furnished. In Algeria, Dr. Bouquet has noted that Heroin addicts were recruited from the Hashish addicts, and Dr. Stringaris in Asiatic Russia has found that to be the case there also. In conclusion the Secretariat pointed out that, as a result of concurrent investigations, progress has been made on chemical studies and research, while fresh information has been gathered in other spheres; at the same time, certain points still require clarification, especially in connection with the physiological, psychological, and psychopathic effects of Cannabis and with the relationships between Hashish-addiction and insanity, and between Cannabis-addiction and crime. After considering all of the recommendations furnished by the League of Nations, the Sub-Committee then made the following report, which is very pertinent in the light of the points we want to discuss here.

“In discussion of the matter before it, the Sub-Committee divided consideration of the subject as follows:

(1) Commercial uses of Cannabis
(2) Medical uses of Cannabis
(3) Effects of the abuse of Cannabis
(4) Methods of detecting the presence of Cannabis
(5) Legal definition of the term ‘Cannabis.’

The discussions developed the fact that the Committee still lacks complete information concerning the commercial uses of Cannabis. The Sub-Committee would welcome further information concerning the physiological, psychological and psychopathic effects of abusive use of Cannabis and the relation between Cannabis-addiction and crime. Dr. Bouquet pointed out that percentages of resin content in the hemp plant raised in different countries should be ascertained with a view to deciding whether it is necessary to prohibit or merely to control the cultivation of Cannabis for industrial purposes. The value of the Beam test for detecting the presence of Cannabis appears to have been confirmed by a further series of experiments, the results of which are before the Committee, including those attained by the employment of several different modifications of that text. Dr. de Myttenaere said that his experience enabled him to state that the Beam alkaline reaction and its modifications indicated the chief element in the various

components of Cannabis resin which was the cause of Hashish addiction, i.e.the alcoholic group. Dr. Bouquet informed the Sub-Committee that a test based upon new principles had recently been devised which will form the subject of a thesis to be presented by Messrs. Duquenois and Hassan Negm Mustapha at the University of Strasbourg in July, 1938, a brief description of which will be circulated to the Opium Advisory Committee. The question of modifying the incomplete definition of Indian hemp in the Geneva Convention of 1925 was discussed, but no definite conclusion was arrived at. It appeared upon examination that such modification would affect not only Article 1 of the Convention, but also Articles 4 and 11 and would necessarily involve complicated adjustments in the Convention itself. It was therefore decided to postpone further consideration of this matter until the next session of this Sub-Committee when it is hoped that more time will be available for the work. Up to the present time, the work of the Sub-Committee has consisted almost entirely of collecting information in regard to the various phases of the Cannabis problem, and, until the Sub-Committee has before it more data than it has at present, it would scarcely be considered advisable to undertake definite recommendations.”

We would like to take inventory of our research and see what is needed. The Federal Government did not get into this picture until after all 48 states had adopted legislation controlling Marihuana in greater or less degree. The Marihuana Tax Act went into effect a little over a year ago, and since that time we have destroyed some 16,000 acres of the plant throughout the various States; most of it in the Middle West. About l,000 violators have been arrested by the Federal Government. I am not trying to sell this book, but I want to call your attention to the work on “Marihuana’a written by Dr. Robert P. Walton, Professor of Chemistry, University of Mississippi, with a foreword by Dr. Geller who is a distinguished pharmacologist connected with the University of Chicago. I would like to start with the agricultural phases of this problem, which will also include the industrial and economic phases. I am therefore going to call on Dr. Wright of the University of Wisconsin and ask him to discuss some of the questions that seem to be troubling us.

DR. WRIGHT: Gentlemen, let me say to you in the first place that while I am connected with the University of Wisconsin, so far as the hemp work is concerned, the hemp being Marihuana, I am working as an agent and in cooperation with the Bureau of Plant Industry here in Washington. I had better assume that you are about the agricultural side like I am about chemistry, that you do not know very much about it. Therefore, suppose I sketch briefly the practical every day procedure by which hemp is handled in the United States and Canada, not mentioning anything about the European situation, and as Dr. Robinson is going to review something about the history of hemp, I will leave that out entirely. In the United States hemp is an annual crop produced from seed planted each year, planted in the Spring the same as small grains are planted, the same as corn is planted. It has been grown during recent years almost exclusively in very few sections; Kentucky, Illinois, Wisconsin and Minnesota. It is planted en masse thickly as small grain, in other words, it is drilled in. It is planted on very good soil in order to be a profitable production. It is a crop limited to good soil

for profitable production most every where in the world, and it is seeded about a bushel to the acre on soil, prepared as for small grain. After it is planted, there is nothing left to be done except to wait for it to be harvested, and it is harvested in the latter part of August, throughout September, and sometimes extending into October depending on the section of the United States or Canada. The seed is usually produced in Kentucky, and in the North American Continent, very rarely any other place. In the sections where it is grown for fibre or industrial uses, seed is not produced. The usual, or arbitrary way of determining when to harvest a crop is when it is well in blossom, we will say rather late blossom when the pollen is being fairly cleared, depending from that time on how circumstances work out, but that is when it is begun. It is generally harvested now by special machinery which has been developed during the last few years. It is cut and spread in swaths of even length. It is left in the stuble, spread out for retting. Now, the exact procedure varies in different sections of the country. This retting period, that is the period when the so-called fibre portion of the stem is released

from the woody portion, varies from two weeks to, in certain cases, two months. After it has reached that stage where the fibre can be removed from the straw by being dressed, it is gathered and bound in bundles and shocked. Then it is put in stacks, usually in hemp mills or processing plants. From these stacks it is sent to the dryer, and dried to what is commonly called in the trade bone-dry condition and which would mean 8 or 9 or 10% moisture. Then it is crushed by the breaking process, that is the fiber is separated by the usual process called scutching, and it is divided into two kinds of fibre, one the long stretch, and the other tangled, and then it is inserted in bales. That, I believe, is the agricultural procedure of the handling of the hemp. There is a little variation in Kentucky because of the weather conditions. It is not retted immediately, but shocked until later in the season when the retting conditioning can be done. In the northern part of the country, it is spread on the ground and the retting is done immediately. Now, I want to avoid going into the acreage and that phase of the work for Dr. Robinson is going to cover that.

I would like to inject this thought here for I am sure it will do no harm, and that is that hemp has been an American industry ever since Colonial times It is not a large industry. It has had its ups and downs, but it has been an American industry since Colonial times, and it is one of the oldest crops that we have in the United States. It is used, as you know, from an industrial stand-point for textile purposes, and to a minor extent for other purposes and Dr. Robinson will develop that. Now, there might be perhaps some questions right now. One or two other items I want to take up before I am through.

DR. WRIGHT: I was just wanted to throw this into the pot, and that is, of course, that we who work with the commercial producers, and the industry naturally collectively, and I suppose we are justifiable in that, our prejudices are on that side. I do not think we would be human if we were not, and I do not claim to be other than human. We have a small industry in the United States that

has had its ups and downs over a long period of time. We still produce commercial hemp and fibre. Those in the industry are naturally concerned. They have a stake in that they have what little they have invested in the business. They are not concerned about this last law because I believe they were given a very square deal in the national legislation on the matter. What they are concerned about is the public position, that indefinite intangible thing, public feeling about growing hemp at all. They have already been subjected to some rather embarrassing situations. Now, just suppose that as a result of the agitation, warranted or not, and there are probably two views on that, and I am open to both views, the extensive publicity that has been given in the hemp states, particularly Wisconsin where there is much agitation, that some kind of a legislation will come up to put out or eradicate the production of hemp under the Weed Control Department or the Legislature appropriating money to do it. I will not bother you long on that, but I just want to mention that and show what problem we will be called on to face. Those men have managed to keep their mouths

shut and have expressed no views concerning Marihuana in public, for we feel we are not in a position to do so, and we would like to be sure of our ground before doing it. Of course, having worked with eradication procedures and eradication programs, unless you would convince us otherwise we would oppose the eradication program in Wisconsin as we see it now with the immense cost and the things of that sort. Now comes the other phase of it. We have been trying, in cooperation with the Bureau of Plant Industry, and Dr. Robinson and the Division of Pharmacy of the University of Wisconsin and Dr. Link who is head of the Bio-Chemistry Department of the University of Wisconsin to begin a study of Cannabis in relation to hemp as a crop. Without going into details, I think I have told you my story for the present.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: We thank you very much, Doctor. Before we go on to Dr. Robinson, I think there were various points brought up that our conferees would like to discuss. There is one point about commercial hemp. We did not make a survey in your State, but we did make a survey in the State of Minnesota, and some of the hemp that was harvested in 1934 is still on the ground.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: It is giving us a great deal of difficulty. The farmers up in Minnesota in some of the sections have been subjected to various promotion schemes. Due to the existence of stacks of the old 1934 and 1935 crop of harvested hemp in Southern Minnesota, which is a menace to society in that it has been used by traffickers, we have arrested a gang who took a truck load of this Marihuana into New York. I will say that the farmers up there have been cooperating with us 100%. If they see anybody around that section who looks like a trafficker, they bring out their old shot guns, and he is soon disposed of. We have very little trouble from the farmers up there. It is said that every stack contains a plentiful supply for smoking purposes. Allegations have been made that if it was on the ground three years there would not be any resin left. Mr. Wollner can tell you how much resin some of the experts reported after Marihuana had been lying on the ground three years. It seems that the traffickers can find it. Our own chemists have found it. We feel that the farmer is entitled to a reasonable return for these old crops. He planted the crop in goodfaith; he has no desire to violate the law, and we have

been assured that the removal of the harvested crops is very desirable. It is a very difficult situation. Have you any observations to make, or any discussion on the question?

DR. ROBINSON: As to the commercial procedure, the plant is spread out on the land, and left there until the stalks are retted, and some of the leaves are gone. It is shocked and taken into the hemp mill. The grower is uncertain as to where he stands, and whether the leaves that are associated with the straw are in the legal sense Marihuana, referring, of course, to that particular clause in the law which refers to dry stalks. Now this is done as follows: the straw is left on the land in the stubble for varying times, as I say, from two weeks or longer during this retting process. It is subject to the action of rains and bleaching and decomposition with the various effects of bacteria and fungi, but when it is taken in, it still retains a trace of the leaves. That is what affects the folks up there in Minnesota.

DR. WRIGHT: That is the non-fibrous material crushed and taken away from the fibrous. It is the residue. It

MR. WOLLNER: I am afraid to say that the experiment with Minnesota hemp is rather inconclusive. As I understand it the hemp was bundled before it had been permitted to ret for an extended period of time. It may be we will find that if the hemp is permitted to ret before it is stacked, a further decomposition of the drug will ensue. However, we do know that the Minnesota hemp of 1934 is active.

MR. WOLLNER. It is active but whether the activity was retained by improper handling of the hemp, I don’t know. As I understand it they were advised to bunch their hemp before it was retted.

DR. WRIGHT: It was never rotted or retted. The plan of handling in Minnesota was unauthorized. In other words, it was contrary to the usual procedure. They put the green hemp or the semi-green hemp in a bundle, and at a later stage it would be known in the trade as green hemp. That was never used for textile purposes. It was not suitable for textile purposes.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Then, Dr. Wright, your opinion is that if harvested properly most of the leaves avould remain on the ground and not adhere to the stalks?

DR. WRIGHT: I will be perfectly frank in telling you that will vary in seasonal conditions, and so we are much concerned about that. There are leaves left. As to the condition of those leaves, we don’t know. They are left, and there is no use in denying that. There are considerable left on the straw. There are not a great deal, but there are leaves left.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Then prompt harvesting would reduce this danger we are now confronted with?

DR. MATCHETT: What about the hemp stacked green in Kentucky; doesn’t that mold more than that left on the ground?

DR. WRIGHT: Hemp is left in the shock in Kentucky. You will correct me Dr. Robinson, if I’m wrong, because it has been fifteen years since I was down there, but it is my impression that it is shocked. It is first spread and allowed to wilt on the ground.

MR. WOLLNER: From our point of view that would be improper handling; there would be no decomposition of the resin.

DR. WRIGHT: The general weathering we would get would be during the curing stage.

DR. WRIGHT: Now, after it is shocked, cured and stacked, later it is spread on the land again and retted.

DR. MATCHETT: But, during this period, of course, it would be in excellent condition for smoking, - that is, relatively dry in the stack.

DR. WRIGHT: From the time it is cut until it is rotted, whatever leaves there are should be suitable for Marihuana.

MR. SMITH: While we have not found in New York State a large agricultural growth, we do find that the largest part of our growth, instead of being on good soil, is on poor soil. For the past two years when I have been looking for wild growth, I have found it in dumps or soil that has a high content of ashes or cinders, and I have found it trying to grow it in my own garden but the growth does not begin to compare with that of the cinder growth, and as a matter of fact we have found that most recently the wild growth seeks that kind of soil. That does not prove anything, of course, except we have probably most of our wild growth coming from ashes

and cinders and public dumps. This did strike me very forcibly, and what struck me more forcibly was that we had some of the biggest growths in Brooklyn where it was almost a clear cinder dump. Our experience in New York State so far has not produced anyone who desired to be licensed as a cultivator. I think some of that might be offset if the public was assured that the cultivator would have to be licensed, after proper investigation, and that definite qualifications exist to establish control.

DR. WRIGHT: As to your first statement about hemp growing on cinder beds, wild hemp, - it is not a fibrous hemp. As all of you who are familiar with the middle west know, you will find blocks that were formerly even cinder beds, but fibrous hemp will not grow there.

MR. SMITH: The point I was chiefly interested in was the public interest, where it was grown, whether being produced by chance or design.

DR. WRIGHT: We are hopeful we can clarify this situation. Since legislation may be introduced to eradicate or to bring pressure upon the legitimate producer, I appreciate your suggestion. I think it is a good one.

MR. SMITH: We have also in New York State given some consideration to definite measures for removal, but so far we have operated under difficulties acting under nuisance laws. Under the Public Health laws in New York, we can fix a penalty for maintaining a public nuisance. We have in a few instances removed Marihuana from private property where the owner wouldn’t undertake it himself, and then assessed a lien against the property within the Public Health law on the ground that we have removed a public nuisance.

DR. WRIGHT: It might be construed to apply to Marihuana under our Public Health regulations in Wisconsin. I do not know whether it has been discussed or not.

STATEMENT OF DR. B. B. ROBINSON BUREAU OF PLANT INDUSTRY DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE.

DR. ROBINSON: If fibres produced from plants were ranked in accordance with their world production in tonnage, hemp would occupy a position of probably third or fourth. It would be surpassed by cotton and jute produced in India, and in some years by flax. That gives you some idea of where it stands in relative importance. Dr. Wright mentioned a matter that many of you are familiar with, the fact of the importance that hemp played in our earlier Colonial days before the introduction of

the cotton gin. The culture of hemp in the United States, I might ay has decreased because of the cheap competitive fibres which are produced by cheap labor in foreign countries, and it is because of this cheapness that they are substituted for hemp in many cases, and not because of the fact that they have characteristics that are better than hemp for cordage or textile purposes. The average world production between the years 1930 and 1954 for hemp was about 750,000 tons. And now, during that same period in the United States in this small industry we have produced about 500 tons. The world production was produced mainly by Russia where I think 56% of the fibre is produced, followed by Italy, Yugoslavia, Rumania as other producing countries, During the past year or two we imported for domestic consumption about 700 to 800 tons a year, so our total consumption, including domestically produced fibre, and imported fibre runs about from 1500 to 2000 tons. Now, many of you here may wonder why such a small industry as that should be favored to continue on, particularly in the light of the detrimental character of certain parts of the plant used illegally. In the first place the United States is dependent

upon the foreign production of fibres other than cotton. The United States imports annually about 300,000 tons of fibre used for cordage and textile purposes. The estimated value last year was about $35,000,000. That does not include some importations of India twine. I do not mean to infer that if hemp were grown in this country, it could substitute for all of this 300,000 tons imported, but it is the principal fibre which we can get in the United atates, which could be substituted in many cases if conditions arose to make it necessary. The United States, is very thoroughly taken care of at present in reference to supplying our own needs on this cordage fibre. Another argument for the hemp industry is the adaptability of the hemp plant to various regions of the country and because of suitability for mechanical handling, and these are some of the reasons why the office with which I am connected in the Department of Agriculture is interested in seeing this small nucleus of hemp industry continued each year until it is capable of supporting itself under economic conditions. I am speaking more of the industry in Wisconsin rather than the promotional attempts to grow hemp in Minnesota which one might speak of an unorthodox processing. But this industry we have is capable at the

present time of supporting itself if public opinion does not force it to be shut doan, or additional restrictions hamper it. So, this industry could be benefited we naturally think, if this Marihuana stigma could be removed. However, the Wisconsin operators are not opposed to adjust themselves to the conditions and are very much interested in trying to overcome this drug problem. A couple of years ago when this problem was brought to the front more vividly than in the past, the Department of Agriculture was naturally interested in it, and the main way we could see to combat it was as to how to get around it [sic]. Naturally there might be less restriction on the production of hemp in this country if we could prove that in certain sections of the country, because of climatic conditions, the drug was not active, or if we could possibly get plants of varieties that lack the drug, which is probably an Utopian view, or that had it in low concentration. As a result we cooperated with the Bureau of Narcotics, in setting up some experiments. The Bureau of Narcotics has conducted all of the chemical work, and Dr. Marchett later on will speak of these tests. I do not want to go too much into his field. But, we have attempted under

this cooperative work to remove or reduce the resinous substance from commercial hemp. You gentlemen who are chemists and pharmacologists can assist the Agricultural program by furnishing the Agriculture Department some working tools or some tests by which we can tell the presence or absence of this drug, or its activity. It may be said that I am throwing it all on the chemists. I am not trying to do that, but we do need something to work with. So far we naturally have resorted to the Beam tests, the significance of which we do not know with certainty, but in the work we undertook last year, it was the only simple tool which we could work with. Now last summer out at Arlington farm close by, we planted a field in which there were 98 small plots of hemp that were set up in conformity with the statistical method of analysis of variances by a man named Fisher. We obtained statistically significant differences between the varieties using the alkaline but did not obtain it using the acid test. The question may arise, then, as to which is the most accurate of the tests in measuring the presence or absence of the drug. In reference to that, the question of the region of the hemp may play some importance. The native home of

hemp is supposedly in central Asia, -and the hemp of Chinese origin which has been distributed throughout the world has practically always been used for fibre purposes. The hemp that has come from India has been of the narcotic type and has not been cultivated generally for fibre. It has been cultivated for the drug. I wish I knew the history of this a little better, but from what I have been able to learn from others, hemp does not appear to constitute a narcotic problem in China. That is of a fibrous variety, and there is a great difference between that hemp and the hemp that came from India. With reference to our test at Arlington, the narcotic chemists selected samples at three different periods for the acid and alkaline test. We got a difference, mathematically significant between those tests. That is, the first sampling which I think was in the early part of June, was different from the later two samplings in that it was lower in that characteristic of activity, the numbers they gave on the Beam test. Actually, the last test was a little lower than the middle test, but it was not significantly lower. We arranged 8 different fertilizer treatments for the various plots and found that the fertilizer used had no effect on the strength or incidence either the

acid or alkaline test. Because of the fertilizer result it would appear that soil vs. variations that occurred probably did not produce any differences or that the soil does not play a part. With reference to climate, so far we have not made a test for we have only had the work at Arlington. But we plan next summer, if things go well at Arlington, to conduct a test in Wisconsin. We have some cooperative agents in Mississippi and we thought we could get a test farm there. It has been suggested that we try to get one other region, Arizona or New Mexico, or out in that section. So far, we have not made arrangements, but, if we could get these various locations in the United States, then we could have a set-up whereby we could evolute [sic] climatic conditions in reference to certain tests, the Beam test or some other one if you can furnish it. These are the results which we have obtained so far in the agricultural program to get away from this drug. There have been several reasons I have not brought out as to why we thought we could get somewhere. We know by handling the plants that some of them are very resinous, and some are not. So, we are receptive to the work you men will do to give us some means of testing our plants so as to allow

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Thank you very muck, Dr. Robinson. You recall what I said about the Turkish annual report for the year 1937 in which it is said that Cannabis sativa with long stalks is grown for industrial purposes in various parts of Anatolia; that the fibre is used for the manufacture of ropes and sacks, and its resin content is so slight that it could not be used for the extraction of a narcotic drug. It might be interesting to get some Turkish seed.

MR. WOLLNER: We have not had a great deal of success as regards those statements. We obtained some seed submitted by Dr. Bouquet and I believe Dr. Robinson planted some of them, without any success.

DR. ROBINSON: We planted them under favorable conditions last spring. Roughly we may have gotten in the field 200 or 300 plants, and after our first Beam test it was estimated we had about 100 left. About the first of August, I came back from a trip to the west, and we el- iminated about two-thirds of the remainder leaving only about 40. I have harvested about 20 of these one-half were males, and we sent 10 from that collection over to Dr. Matchett to run an alkaline Beam test on. I was

MR. WOLLNER: Was the amount of resin in these plants comparable to that in other plants?

DR. ROBINSON: In harvesting these plants, we merely stripped the seed in the field to keep the birds from getting it and I would say that the African plant was more resinous than the Manchurian plant. It may be that the African plant was later in maturing, but still, by comparison with the Manchurian plant, it had more resin. My hand was simply caked with resin in stripping the plant for the seed.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: The Indian Government report for 1934 shows that where they did not have this type of hemp all of the resin was imported from Central Asia. It is stated that the hemp cultivated in Europe does not carry the intoxicating properties of Indian hemp. While it is believed that the European hemp does not contain as much resin as is to be found in hemp usually produced in Asia, the production of the active resin is particularly variable, and there are some times great differences in quantity depending on the altitude of the place of cultivation. Are there any questions that you care to ask, Dr.

DR. HIBBEN: I would like to ask if you made any experiments artificially in the new varieties by radiation?

DR. ROBINSON: We had a program for a number of years on hemp, and my predecessor, Mr. Dewey, who unfortunately could not be here this morning, reached retirement age three years ago, and our hemp program was interrupted. So far we have not gone into that, but to some extent we have considered it. These other methods we have approached seemed to have possibilities of results if the tests mean anything. I think this next spring, we should be able to plant these negative seeds we have, and those which have tested negative three different times and have been pollinated by plants in three different tests, and we should be able to give the chemists something definite to test.

DR. MUNCH: It is my recollection, when Mr. Dewey made a test of the original plants growing in Arlington back in 1922, we found different physiological portents in the male and the female but, at that time, Mr. Dewey had seed he had obtained from various parts of the world, and it is my impression that after about three years of cultivation at Arlington, the growth characteristics of all of these plants tended to the same type. In other

words, they all tended to hemp of a certain height, -as I say that occurred after three years of cultivation.

DR. ROBINSON: I think that more or less that result is obtained. Professor Wright who may have had a little closer touch with the problem could answer you better. Wouldn’t that be your opinion, Professor Wright?

DR. WRIGHT: Yes, under the method used of applying open pollinating, that was the tendency as far as our observation went,-that they were more or less alike.

DR. ROBINSON: In reference to that, these stalks of hemp we obtained last year from these various sources, have all been isolated, so they have not been cross pollinated.

DR. MUNCH I do not know where Mr. Young of Florence, South Carolina, got his idea for the raising of Cannabis for a medicinal purpose -

DR. MUNCH: There was a material decrease in the material before he finally abandoned that project.

DR. ROBINSON: I do not know how he obtained it all, or that he obtained it all from Mr. Dewey, but as I recall, he did.

DR. MUNCH: There is one other question, and that is as to the method by which the seeds themselves were ob-

DR. WRIGHT: I do not have any notes on that. The seed are grown from plants cultivated principally for seed; I mean the ordinary hemp which has been planted for seed similar to corn. It is planted in rows, all harvested by hand, and put in large shocks like those in Kentucky. It is harvested in the latter part of September or the first of October in the section in which it is grown. Then the shocks are dumped over on large canvasses, smoothed out on the ground, and the stubble removed and beat out with sticks in the old fashioned method. This is the only place in the United States producing this commercially.

DR. MATCHETT: Isn’t most of the seed planted here produced in foreign countries?

DR. WRIGHT: Most of the seed produced for Commercial purposes originated in China, central China or towards

MR. WOLLNER: I believe what Dr. Matchett means is the commercial crop that is grown for instance in Wisconsin, does that originate from seed grown in Kentucky, or the Far East?

DR. WRIGHT: All of the hemp planted in the United States for commercial purposes comes from Kentucky. That is, all of the legitimate hemp comes from seed grown in Kentucky. Does that answer the question?

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Dr. Matchett, you have been collaborating with Dr. Robinson in these experiments at Arlington. Can you tell us what results you obtained? Dr. Robinson has told us quite a lot about the results, but I think you can probably elaborate upon them.

DR. MATCHETT: First of all I might state we made these tests in the manner that was published by us last year, and in the treatment we divided the tests into six categories, according to the depth of color that we obtained, beginning with zero for negative plants. These plants which, gave us only traces of color, which we felt should not be overlooked, but which we also felt would not constitute wholly satisfactory identification of the

Those plants characterized as 2, gave strong responses, definitely positive, and those as 3, 4, and 5 responded with increasing intensity in that order.

Briefly we found on variety No. 1, a Rumanian variety 97.5% of the plants tested would have been satisfactorily identified by the Beam test. That is assuming for the moment the single test would be sufficient, which I believe is generally understood not to be so.

Variety No. 2, another Rumanian variety, gave us 100%.
Variety No. 3, the third Rumanian variety, 87% of satisfactory response.
Variety No. 5, Manchuria, 22.9% satisfactory response.
Variety No. 6, Chinese, 13.8% satisfactory.
Variety No. 9, Italian, 98.1%

There is a very decided difference between the Chinese, and Manchurian varieties on the one hand and the Rumanian and Italian varieties on the other.

Now there were some very interesting things in reference to the differences between the three test periods.

It is true that there was one rather decided change, particularly in the second test, but there was not as significant difference between the number of negative plants, nor was the difference worked with reference to

The interesting thing was where we had many in category 2 in the first testing, in the next testing a considerable increase appeared in category 4, with a corresponding decrease in category 2.

The actual number of negative plants was not significantly different. I believe the first test gave us 36, the second test 32, and the third test 40.

During the course of our activities we found that molding had no apparent effect on one alkaline test response of either negative or positive plants. We permitted them to mold in a. very moist place for a period of five weeks. There was no change in the Beam test.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: I want to ask Dr. Wright a question. In harvesting the plant, Doctor, we understand that the farmer usually harvests it before the resin reaches its highest stage. Is that true?

DR. WRIGHT: I will say yes, not knowing when the highest stage of the resin is reached myself, but from what I could gather from talking to Mr. Wollner and Dr. Link and those most familiar with the subject. It is cut in the mid-blossom stage, and from what I understand the plants are usually expected to have a high content of resin at that time.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: In our eradication program, 16,000 acres have been gone over, and as I understand it we will also have to go over that same acreage during the coming year, and probably the third year. Do you know how long that seed will remain dormant in the soil?

DR. WRIGHT: I can only give you some guess on that. It is quite variable, and how long the seed will remain in the soil is simply my guess. If it is harvested the first year, before pollination occurs I would expect that to handle the situation under most circumstances. I am basing that on practical observation and experience, but if there is a repetition and the plant does become a volunteer plant, if the same process as followed for two years we could expect almost complete eradication.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: What seed could replace the hemp seed as bird food? There is a lot of growth throughout the country due to the casting about of bird seed. Now, however we require sterilization of hemp seed. We have not reached the 100% point in sterilization but the seed people tell us they should sell the seed in 5% mixtures; but even 5%, mixtures if the seed is not properly sterilized, might produce some wild growth. Have you any suggestions on that?

DR. WRIGHT: I believe that these gentlemen here from the animal biology department might be better able to judge of that than I am.

DR., COUCH: As a matter of fact, I do not know anything on that point, and we have not gone into it at all. I am extremely interested however.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: I think there should be some discussion as to the relative activities between the male and the female plants.

DR. BLATT: May I ask a question of Dr. Robinson? As I understand it, the average production is about 500 tons a year. Is that 500 tons of fibre?

DR. ROBINSON: Yes. This past summer, we had 1300 acres of hemp produced commercially in this country, and it has been running about that acreage with the exception that in 1934 and 1935 this acreage appeared in Minnesota, and in 1936 and 1937 we had a big acreages in Illinois, but those were acreages planted, you might say, for other purposes than the ordinary use, for there was an idea of producing fibre as a substitute for a wool and various things of that nature. Those industries that attempted to do that, for one reason or another, have dropped by the wayside, and 1000 to 1500 acres is the normal hemp production each year in the United States.

MR. WOLLNER: Professor Wright, you heard Commissioner Anslinger’s question for information on the relationship between male and female plants. You are undoubtedly aware of most of the discussions in the past years on the subject of Marihuana, and that it has centered around the female plant. As a matter of fact, I believe the United States Pharmacopoeia refers to the flowering type of the female plant, and it is stated that Marihuana comes mostly from the female plant. I wonder whether historically that might not have arisen from the fact that possibly the male plant flowered at an earlier period than the female plant in the growth of the plant itself, and at the time of harvesting by force of circumstance they were limited to harvesting female tops.

DR. WRIGHT: Not actually knowing it, I could not say, of course, but I am sure that is the answer. In the male plant the leaves drop off long before, the female plant, and when the traffickers have reached the plant the leaves have practically all gone from the male, but the females are luxuriant.

DR. WRIGHT: You see, in fibre, they are cut at an early stage when the female plants are just forming the

MR. WOLLNER. When produced for fibre, the plant does not reach the height we experienced in Arlington.

DR. WRIGHT: It has reached its full height when cut for fibre. You planted it in rows, too, which would add to the height.

MR. HERWICK: I should like to ask Professor Wright a question as to whether or not there was any quantity of Cannabis raised in this country for commercial drug purposes.

DR. ROBINSON: Undoubtedly there are others here who could furnish that information. I do not know of a single case where any of it has been furnished companies for that purpose, but I think there are companies that get it for that purpose.

MR. SMITH: There was a concern that grew it in Indianapolis several years ago for their own purposes.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Most of the pharmaceutical houses before enactment of Federal Marihuana Legislation

obtained their Cannabis supply from the Middle West. There was relatively little importation of Cannabis for medical purposes.

DR. COUCH: In the Food and Drug Administration, we occasionally see a questionnaire sent to the importers more or less of the patent medicine type, and also some well known pharmaceutical houses where cannabis is still found in the formula for certain products. Under the Pure Food and Drug Act, we have some requirements on that, and we are informed what the source of it is, whether gotten in this country or through importation.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: I think the stocks of some of the larger houses who are still putting this out are sufficient to carry them over for a considerable period of time. Some of the firms transferred or sold their product to other houses, but I know of a number of occasions where raw material was obtained in this country for the local trade.

DR. WRIGHT: I have been informed by Doctors that they did get a considerable amount of their prepared processed material from Mexico. I was wondering if there was any processing plant in Mexico.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: I did not know they imported it for medical uses from Mexico.

DR. MUNCH: Many of the commercial manufacturers have grown it, but because of the extreme variability of the potency of the material they were growing themselves, they attempted to import it from Madras or Bombay. But the material imported was often weaker than that grown in this country. So the next step was to purchase from Mr. Young at Charleston, South Carolina, or the general neighborhood of Lexington, Kentucky, or Nantou, Illinois. But, those sources folded up within the last ten years and there has not been any substantial production of material in the United States since then. I tested most of the material grown in this country that has been offered.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: I suppose that seed came from Kentucky, which in turn came from China.

DR. MUNCH: That is true, but I have tested material grown in the United States commercially that was more potent in its physiological aspects than that imported from India.

MR. FULLER: I think that came about as a result of the interest that developed in the production of it during the war, or just before we got into the war, because at that time I was in the field myself and grew it commercially for four or five years in Virginia from that same stock of seed that Young used in South Carolina, and

which was obtained from the Bureau of Plant Industry. I do not know whether he got it from Dewey or not.

The plan we adopted was to cull out as much as possible the tall plants for purely commercial reasons. We could not get so much material from the tall plants. In other words, bushy plants grew up six and seven feet high, giving much more drug than those that grew up taller but not so bushy, When we considered it the proper time, you would grab hold of it. It felt like a sponge. We collected enough material then to produce a drug very much more potent than any imported material that came into the country.

It was our experience that it really did not make much difference where the hemp came from, after it had been grown here and become acclimated to our conditions you could select bushy plants from it, and it was just as potent. It did not make any difference where it came from. We used to cull our plants, particularly the male plants. I used to think it did not have much effect, but be that as it may, that was what we did. I do not think we could have ever used the male plants anyway for, in stripping, the amount of material obtained was so small.

MR. FULLER: It was a very easy process. It was done by women, and they used gloves. In all of the years we

were producing that material as far as we knew, there never was a case of where anybody used it for illegitimate purposes. In fact at that time, I do not think there was any Marihuana used. But, it did not pay us to go on.

I think a great deal of the Cannabis sold in the drug trade came from the wild materials that grew in the Middle West and one of the largest dealers in drugs handled that crop. I knew him very well, and he told me at the time.

DR. BROMBERG: What further preparation was there after stripping for medicinal purposes?

MR. FULLER: In the manufacturing of medicinals, it has to be extracted usually with alcohol end concentrated down to a solid extract. There was no attempt, and I do not think there has been any attempt made, to separate for commercial purposes the active principle, for even with all of the work done, we do not know what it is.

MR. WOLLNER: Did you find, Mr. Fuller, in your growth of the plant commercially, that arid seasons or drier seasons would increase, or produce an increased quantity of resin?

MR. FULLER: I do not think we noticed any difference. Now, I was in that portion of Virginia very near to Washington on the first plateau, six or eight miles out, and some of those summers were very dry. We would get sometimes six weeks without rain, and it did not seem to affect the yield at all. One season, I recall particularly, there was a great deal of rain, and the crop was just about the same.

MR. WOLLNER: I would like to offer this thought to the Department of Agriculture. The statement is invariably made by people in Europe and the Far East and Near East that the amount of resin produced by a plant is in a measure proportionate to the rainfall, and the less rainfall the more resin. I wonder whether we are actually dealing with the question of the variation in the amount of resin produced as against the amount of resin exuded. That is to say, isn’t it possible as a result of a condition, all that happens is the plant structure, so to speak, shrinks to evaporation and greater amount of resin appears on the surface, but the absolute quantity contained by the flowering tops and the leaves is the same?

DR. ROBINSON: I think your point is well taken, and it was my intention to go into some of those points

in those tests throughout the United States. We collected material over at Arlington Farm last summer at various stages for the purpose of making a microtome test of these little pockets. So far we have not had time to do very much on that, and there are gentlemen here who have done more. We actually found those pockets present in pants two weeks old and on varying specimens which we have in our office. We want back to plants that were less [than] three weeks old and we found there hashish material. Now in older plants in some of the specimens we have of Indian hemp, it seemed to be exuded from the cells all over the surface, and I imagine in such plants as that, if it exuded if you touched it, much more would come off than if it had not exuded. Is that what you mean, certain climatic conditions would cause cells to erupt, and the viscosity of the exudate would be such that it would spread.

MR. WOLLNER: I am thinking in terms of opium or the poppy. You can get opium from the pod without scarifying, and the thought struck me, in the case of Cannabis, since the leaf is always extracted in this country, and since in the past the process has been of rubbing it from the outside, in the East, they get more resin than we do, due to the fact that more has exuded but not

DR. HIBBEN: There is another factor involved in the question about rainfall, and the formation of resin, and that is perhaps the production of resin would depend upon the amount of sunshine, and the more rainfall, the less sunshine. In tomato plants for example, the Department of Agriculture has done a great deal of experimentation as to foliage, and [it] has been shown that the quantity of foliage depends greatly upon the duration of sunshine the plant has received.

DR. WRIGHT: May I ask you this question, - I was interested in the fact that you selected the bushy plant believing it more profitable to do that.

DR. WRIGHT: Did you have any observations at all to indicate they were more potent or more satisfactory to the purchaser than the more slender plants; have you any reason to believe there is a difference between the two?

MR. FULLER: No, I do not think there is any difference, for the green leaf from the male plant yields resin, and as far as we could determine, the resin was just as

potent as the female. You do not get so much per plant. That was what we were interested in, but, as far as quality is concerned, I do not think there was any difference. Continue